A Prophet

[ciro22]

ciro22 -- just because some of us complained about the violence in the film and believe me it is unrelenting and yes, I thought much of it wasgratuitous and overplayed, doesn't mean we should sit at home and rent The Care Bears -- thanks for the advice and sorry if I find your suggestion patronising and demeaning.

Maybe you could respect my opinion if I can respect yours.

Well seeing how you've gone and completely missed the point that was being made I'm not entirely sure that you actually even understand my opinion in the first place!

We're talking about a film that's set in a prison, where the central characters are all criminals, some of whom are desperately fighting to survive, whilst others are viciously attacking each other for control.

So... exactly which part of the entire premise of the film was it that had you beliving that there wasn't going to be any violence involved?

And what real world do you live in where you find it so hard to comprehend that such violence is an integral part of both criminal activity and the prison system?

(I can only assume that you sit at home watching "The Godfather" tutting away at why those pesky Italian gangsters just can't get along with each other and play nice...)

In actual fact, the violence in the movie is neither unrelenting, gratuitous nor overplayed as is being suggested because it is appropriately placed within the clear context of the film itself.

The whole point is therefore relatively simple -
When you go see a movie such a "Un Prophete" it's pretty clear what you will be getting - just like the Care Bears Movie - so complaining about such things afterwards is neither helpful nor constructive...

[ciro22]

Elski -

Well all you need to do is make sure you bring an Arabic friend along with you next time!

The cinema should have given you complimentary tickets for another film though if they didn't put the subtitles up, although I guess you might have missed that opportunity now.

It's be interesting to see what people made of the film without subtitles though - I imagine it might come across as just a lot of people attacking each other suddenly for no reason! ha

[ejwrank]

I'm not sure there is much point in my responding to ciro22 as obviously I am so stupid I simply don't understand the premise of this film at all.

This is my last post on this, I promise -- but I really do want to know why my opinion is not as valid as yours? Obviously you feel you are such a film authority and I am just an idiot. I'm finding that some people on this website are so single-minded they refuse to accept anyone else's right to write something else. You might not be right or I might not be right but we are both entitled to our opinions and there is no need to tell me I probably "sit at home watching "The Godfather" tutting away at why those pesky Italian gangsters just can't get along with each other and play nice..." is total rubbish.

You know nothing about me so please play fair and stop being so disagreeable.

[Beate]

ciro22, ejwrank has a valid point. This is a friendly site. We are not here to attack each other but to share our film experiences - whether we agree on them or not. We all have the right to our opinion but we have no right to belittle others who do not share our opinion. I would ask you to respect this in future and not offend others like that, because you are not helpful or constructive either, in fact, you are going to drive some people off this site if you continue in this manner.

Read Forum Rule 7:
Respect your fellow members. This is a friendly forum and we'd like to keep it that way.

[ciro22]

Beate -

I do appreciate what you're trying to say, however there was never any attack on Ejwrank in the first place.

I wrote a general review of the film, one small aspect of which addressed the subject of violence in the film. Previous commenters had raised this issue and so I simply provided an informed counterpoint to that opinion. I did not single anyone out in the article, nor did I attack any particular opinion - indeed, I've always agreed that the film is fairly violent. (The fact that the film is rated 18 should really give some indication of that to most people...)

However, I did seek to provide an informed and reasoned opinion that such violence has a clear context in such a film; that it forms an integral part of the real life setting and subject matter that the film is seeking to portray; and therefore that it is clearly to be expected when going to see a film like Un Prophete - and, in order to keep the tone light, I also used a humorous example in order to illustrate the point that what you (go to) see is what you get.

Ejwrank chose to respond to this by attacking both the article and myself. Of course, it was not even necessary for Ejwrank to respond directly at all, but if he/she chooses to address things in such a way then he/she shouldn't be getting too upset when I respond back.

Anyway, I've already clearly explained both the original point of the article and the Care Bears comment, and as it's also clear that some people are unable to approach discussions with any sense of humour, so I'll simply choose not to respond directly to Ejwrank's last post and that should hopefully be the end of the matter!

[jmd1983]

Why can't we all get along with each other and play nice?

[RioBravo]

I hesitated giving my comments on this as I felt I was the only one who really didn't like this film at all. It is incredibly grizzly and I ended up with my eyes closed for much of it (not easy to read the subtitles if your eyes are closed!). There was just so much violence and little else but violence and it was so long. We probably should have walked out but that would have meant walking in front of the screen as there was only one exit. Really wish we hadn't gone....

I'd say that to claim that there is little else but violence is false. There are dream/nightmare sequences, the drama of relationships built inside the jail and the associated politics, touching moments between friends, and grizzly aspects of prison life beyond the violence.

I personally believe that the complaints about violence refer mainly to one very powerful and effective scene involving a murder. The scene works exceptionally well, but is very tough to watch, and that is how it should be. It is not done to sensationalize the act, but to add weight to the life changing experience that it is for the perpetrator, and the film goes on to reference this often. The scene is justified and the film was not made to ignore the realities of prison violence. It is worth 10 times as much as the average flippant scene of violence in most of today's more cheesy action films such as the stupid but fun for an hour Law Abiding Citizen or the offensive, badly made and self-serious right-wing porn Harry Brown. Un Prophete should not be criticized due to the fact that it doesn't trivialize violence like those films do, and it is no more unrelenting in its presentation of violence than they are.

It would be worth watching Funny Games (1997) to have a think about how easy it is to be entertained by violence in film. The film is a rather condescending lecture perhaps, but a good and effective one still.

As for complaints about the extent of the violence, its an 18 certificate prison film, and the BBFC said this "Contains strong bloody violence and very strong language".

[ciro22]

Excellent analysis and well argued, RioBravo!

[ciro22]

RioBravo -

Funny Games is a very good reference point, although I'm not sure it's entirely about being the notion of being entertained by violence.

With the way the main character treats the audience, the nods to certain film conventions, and the continual breaking of the fourth wall - perhaps it's more of a comment on the observer/audience and whether they know what they are supposed to be watching, and whether by their act of watching they have therefore become a party to it.

[ciro22]

The film has a 93% rating on Rotten Tomatoes so far (14 Fresh / 1 Rotten) with 100% from the Top Critics